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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

Our best striker will always be one that’s not playing as the one that does play generally doesn’t score enough. Currently Rhodes is in that role and for no fault of his own, has had absolutely no service for the last two matches. Had Nelson, Jerome, Srbeny, Morris, even Kane have been playing, they would not have scored either.

I’d be surprised if any forward gets more than 10 goals in a season whilst Farke is in charge.
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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

 GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary wrote:
.....so who IS our best striker on the books if not Oliveira? ..not sure if Pukki can be classed as a striker but even if he is , he's not better than Oliveira? ....Rhodes? ?. after his scoring record these past couple of seasons?...Srbeny??....I'm all ears. . PS maybe it's Adam Idah and none of us know it yet??

Ok, well stats aren't everything but here's some for you anyway:

Nelson's pro career stats across his various clubs are 194 appearances, 39 goals, i.e goal ratio of virtually 1 goal in 5.

Pukki's pro career stats are 244 appearances, 91 goals, i.e. goal ratio of 1 goal in 2.7 games - notice a slight difference??

Rhodes pro career stats are 391 appearances, 182 goals, i.e. goal ratio of 1 goal in  just over 2 games - notice an even bigger difference??

Now you can argue all day long about different levels of football, different team setups etc etc but I think if our 'best' striker has a career average of 1 in 5 then we have a problem, as we did last year when he was our main striker.

The stats, and what I've seen so far this season, say that both Rhodes and Pukki, are better.

Srbeny and Idah, hard to say - at the moment probably not (although Sbreny seems to progressing nicely). But in a year or two's time then I would say they have the potential to be better as well, but of course potential isn't always realised. But with them waiting in the wings (plus Spyrou) then its difficult to see how NO will ever get a game, especially given that he doesn't appear to have the attitude/motivation to force his way into contention.



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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

Regardless of stats, Oliviera appears a bit of an idiot to put it mildly.
I’d be glad to get rid, but fact no one else seems to want him suggests he is now known as having a poor attitude.
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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

Well he's missed the boat in transferring to another English club....and has just over 2 hours? ...to move to any of the top European leagues . He may well be Portuguese but as someone who must still be on a decent wage, the Portuguese league is hardly awash with cash so unless he's got a move lined up to one the the bigger sides , a benfica, Porto or sporting, he's painted himself into a corner , is the MLS or China or Qatar still open to him I wonder??
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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

Oliviera has had more loans than Wonga
Get rid of the waster
2010
→ Rio Ave (loan) 12 (0)

2010–2011
→ Paços Ferreira (loan) 31 (5)

2012–2013
→ Deportivo La Coruña (loan) 31 (4)

2013–2014
→ Rennes (loan) 35 (8)

2015
→ Swansea City (loan) 11 (1)

2015–2016
→ Nottingham Forest (loan) 29 (9)



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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

I guess Oliveira is more than happy as he is still getting a nice monthly pay packet, isn't playing and probably not putting much effort in on the training ground, It speaks volumes that he has not gone to any other club here because nobody is prepared to waste money on him.
I really look forward to the day when we can get him and Naismith off our wage bill.
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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

 GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary wrote:
......and I suspect last season's low goals total was largely down to Farke's way of playing, Oliveira didnt exactly have much service and in the main had to come deep and create his own chances . ....you've perhaps forgotten the season before where we were joint top scorers in the league with Newcastle and Brighton with 85 goals....in which oliviera was very much part of

I think there's two sides to that coin.

I agree with you to an extent. The playing style did not suit Oliviera last season, but I think some of it is just his own personal attributes.

The other side, is I don't think it suits him much better this season. Nelson is not going to be getting on the end of balls whipped into the box etc, as that's not really his strength.

I think Rhodes is a far better fit for this system. He wins the ball in the air, he chases lost causes and most importantly he gets in the 6 yard box and causes a nuisance. I only saw Nelson really impress me with his workrate and chasing down defenders once last season - Forest away. Aside from that, although he did it periodically, I never really though "wow, Nelson is really working his balls off for the team" all that often.

As to which is more talented, it's almost a moot point. I think Nelson is a more complete finisher, in so much as he can score goals from a greater radius from the goal than Rhodes can, but in the box I think they're both fairly similar. Rhodes gets into dangerous areas far more frequently and doesn't tend to drift out wide like Nelson did. Whether the drifting was a consequence of the system, or a consequence of Nelson is probably up for debate. I err on the side of it being a NO issue but that's just my 2 cents.

I think all things being equal, over the course of a season Rhodes would score more goals in this team. That's not to say Rhodes is a better player than Nelson, but I think he fits the system a lot better. I think Nelson would score better goals and probably get 3 or 4 more assists than Rhodes, but he doesn't have that same poachers instinct to score the scrappy 2 yard tap ins which we've already seen Rhodes do, and I think as the team comes together we will see an awful lot of balls flashed across the box with Rhodes on the end of it.

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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

 rock bus wrote:
Regardless of stats, Oliviera appears a bit of an idiot to put it mildly. I’d be glad to get rid, but fact no one else seems to want him suggests he is now known as having a poor attitude.

Exactly my thoughts.

Talented as he may be, he doesn't have the attitude or work ethic to improve - he appears to be quite arrogant and entitled.

If he is this incredibly talented forward that is rotting in the reserves and would transform the team into title contenders, then ask yourself why he's not even in the squad of a manager who has pressure mounting on his job. 

Nelson's biggest problem is Nelson. There's a reason that he never sticks at a club much longer than a year despite his talents.

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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

.......and there's people on this thread trying to tell me that rhodes is better than Oliveira? ......not a cat in hells chance
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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

 GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary wrote:
.......and there's people on this thread trying to tell me that rhodes is better than Oliveira? ......not a cat in hells chance
Well it very much depends on what you mean by 'better' - if you mean who is the more technically gifted player then I think a lot of people will agree with you that it is NO.

But if you mean who is the most effective goal scorer then it is indisputably Rhodes - as I pointed out earlier, for every two goals NO scores Rhodes scores five so there isn't really even a debate.

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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

Depends how far back you're going in their respective records....rhodes has done nothing in the last 2 seasons and was ineffectual for the 3rd game running again today.
Football has changed...clubs can no longer carry a striker who purely acts on being given "service' whilst offering very little else, this is why RVW was never going to be a success....what may have worked for rhodes 6-8 seasons ago doesn't today.
Strkers need to offer much more and have a more all round game.
Farke needs to bury the hatchet and get Oliveira back on side ....and quick
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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

 GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary wrote:
Depends how far back you're going in their respective records....rhodes has done nothing in the last 2 seasons and was ineffectual for the 3rd game running again today. Football has changed...clubs can no longer carry a striker who purely acts on being given "service' whilst offering very little else, this is why RVW was never going to be a success....what may have worked for rhodes 6-8 seasons ago doesn't today. Strkers need to offer much more and have a more all round game. Farke needs to bury the hatchet and get Oliveira back on side ....and quick
I'm talking about their entire careers, and whilst things do change NO's stats show that he has never been prolific at any stage in his career.

If you want to look at recent form then NO was our main striker last season and scored, I think, 6 or 7 league goals and contributed very little else which put him behind both Josh and Maddison who scored mainly solo efforts as well as providing far more assists than NO.

If you think NO is the answer then fine, we all see things differently, but I think you are very much in the minority amongst Canary fans. This is pure guesswork on my part but I would say that Farke was very patient with NO and actually gave him far more starts than his form warrented last season but now, after the summer signings, has clearly decided that he has better options available and certainly IMO he is right - in our first 7 games Rhodes has 2 goals, Henandez has 2, Sbreny has 2 and Pukki has 3 - there's NO's output for last season covered already!!


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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

As a goal scorer, a striker to hold the ball up, a forward to flick the ball on and as a human being, Rhodes is a much better player.
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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

Should speak volumes that another English club didnt sign him even though we were desperate to sell.

Admittedly one fell through, apparently on his personal terms. The sooner we arent paying for him the better.
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Re: Oliviera's here until at least January then?!?....

Seems the Portuguese window shutting at the end of Sept was an error afterall. .....over to you Farke , you may need him to save your job
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