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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

I must have missed the Birmingham story - when did they go into administration?

Just as an aside, the guy who owns Bolton is worth several hundred million. I guess you can't make them spend it, but I don't suppose he will let them go into administration over a £5m debt unless it suits him.
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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

So at one point they were really struggling. Had a near 500million debt, got relegated. Got the debt wiped, they got promoted, stayed in the championship while beating us at the reebok in my first introduction to Farkes Tip tap. Now with a good start to the season they go under from a what 4+ million debt. Eh.

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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

I think the debt was around £175m

latest here

plug gets pulled Tues morn at 10.30

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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

<BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/forums/pinkun-forums/cs/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>sgncfc wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">I must have missed the Birmingham story - when did they go into administration?

Just as an aside, the guy who owns Bolton is worth several hundred million. I guess you can't make them spend it, but I don't suppose he will let them go into administration over a £5m debt unless it suits him.</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Birmingham’s is due to FFP rules
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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

Decent club with decent fans let's hope they get their own stinking rich Chinese owner
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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

 Indy wrote:
For every Bolton, there’s a Cardiff, Watford, Fulham, etc. Each club has its ups and downs, but ultimately it matters not, as we are under our own ownership which has restructured, meaning we are now in a period of championship football. Weather you feel it’s on a downward spiral or restructuring is personal opinion. But I do wonder how many real fans would decide not to renew their season tickets if we suddenly got a Man City overhaul, out of principle?

That's hardly a valid comparison, Indy. I think you are or were in business, and know that companies have their ups and downs, but within a normal spectrum of doing better or doing worse, as with the clubs you mention.

Going into administration is off that spectrum, because it means - as with Bolton - potentially losing control of the business, and even perhaps the business not surviving. On another thread thebigfeller brushed off the administrations other clubs had suffered as if it was a normal event, and just part of ordinary risk-taking, but it is far from that.


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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

 PurpleCanary wrote:
 Indy wrote:
For every Bolton, there’s a Cardiff, Watford, Fulham, etc. Each club has its ups and downs, but ultimately it matters not, as we are under our own ownership which has restructured, meaning we are now in a period of championship football. Weather you feel it’s on a downward spiral or restructuring is personal opinion. But I do wonder how many real fans would decide not to renew their season tickets if we suddenly got a Man City overhaul, out of principle?

That's hardly a valid comparison, Indy. I think you are or were in business, and know that companies have their ups and downs, but within a normal spectrum of doing better or doing worse, as with the clubs you mention.

Going into administration is off that spectrum, because it means - as with Bolton - potentially losing control of the business, and even perhaps the business not surviving. On another thread thebigfeller brushed off the administrations other clubs had suffered as if it was a normal event, and just part of ordinary risk-taking, but it is far from that.



Administration is still one of the worst things that can happen to a football club. The risks attached to it are obvious, the risk to jobs, the risk of no investor wanting to take it on and the club going out of business altogether, the risk of losing the stadium and every asset belonging to the club,  having to start from nothing as a non-league clubpoint, to name a few.

So anyone who thinks it is a legitimate or sensible route to get new investment is living in cloud cuckoo-land - something I am told I know quite alot about..... 



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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

The days of new stinking rich Chinese owners might well be over.

The Chinese Govt is trying to prevent money leaving the Country in this way.

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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

Indy - "For every Bolton, there’s a Cardiff, Watford, Fulham, etc."

This simply isn't the case. There are far more examples of clubs that have suffered long-term difficulties as a result of a takeover followed by reckless spending than there are of clubs enjoying long-term benefit. Very few clubs have remained significantly above their historic average position in the long term, but like us, have enjoyed temporary periods of success.

Those that have enjoyed this success have tended for fall into 2 major categories - the "money no object" takeover (Man City/ Chelsea) or a very rich fan (e.g. Brighton - but it's too soon to see if this will remain a long-term gain.) Another category might be a club bought cheaply out of administration.

Indy - "
how many real fans would decide not to renew their season tickets if we suddenly got a Man City overhaul, out of principle?"

To answer your question directly, I would certainly welcome a money no object takeover a la Man City/ Chelsea. Equally, I would welcome a real fan local billionaire (although this doesn't always work - cf ITFC). I just don't think either is particularly likely. The other option, being bought out of administration, is something that is very risky and something I'd wish to avoid.

I don't see the arguments as "point-scoring" as you suggest. Some suggest "investors" as a highly likely route to long-term success: it isn't. However, this naive belief fuels dissatisfaction with our current situation because they believe that there are easy solutions to long term-success, which don't exist. This in turn drives division.

Indy - Weather you feel it’s on a downward spiral or restructuring is personal opinion.

Not really, it is objectively measurable. We are currently below our long term average position, but there is very little evidence of a downwards spiral - we have moved from slightly above our average to slightly below it - if it is a spiral, it is a very shallow one.

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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

Never been a Bolton fan. Yes he has a good voice but that stupid mullet hairstyle went out years ago.

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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

Just had a read of the Bolton situation a classic example of the self funded club and something for us to look forward to in a year or so's time
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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

Latest info from their local press.................


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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

If they’re found guilty then it’s not just the 12 point deduction, they would also have a two year transfer embargo which presumably would mean the instant return of Wildschutt
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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

"the name is Ben"

But for now long?
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Re: First Birmingham now Bolton

"the name is Ben"
 
I still call the River End the River End, even though it's called something different now - is it still the N&P? It will always be the river end.
 
I call the City Stand the Main Stand because that it was it is...err was..

The South Stand has been and gone and come back again.

So it's City 1st....it's what we all know you as.






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