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Re: Serena Williams

Canarydan is actually canary Ann and I claim £10 😉
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Re: Serena Williams

She called the umpire a thief for goodness sakes.  Tennis umpires can be tolerant to a certain point of over emotional rantings and swearing by males or females - football refs put up with it most of the time - but this umpire was subject to something else - abuse of his professional integrity - she might have got away with saying she had been robbed (which she did say) but then to directly label hm a thief  was over the line. 

She says she has said much worse to an umpire, well I doubt it.



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Re: Serena Williams

Wow.

A lot of middle-aged white men tell a black woman what is and isn’t sexist.
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Re: Serena Williams

And for the avoidance of doubt, I am stereotyping the PinkUn readship to highlight the use of stereotypes by posters on here.
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Re: Serena Williams

 Nuff Said wrote:
Wow. A lot of middle-aged white men tell a black woman what is and isn’t sexist.


THANK YOU!

See my previous post on the first page of this thread.

Utter madness.

That IS the last word from me.

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Re: Serena Williams

 Nuff Said wrote:
Wow. A lot of middle-aged white men tell a black woman what is and isn’t sexist.

What does being a "black" woman have to do with it? 

Also, the umpire has a record of giving out penalties for code violations against male and female tennis players - including coaching from the sidelines - so why was this particular case sexist?   Because he didn't make allowances for being called a thief?  I suspect if a male player had called him that, I suspect he would have been defaulted there and then and forfeited the match.  So maybe Serena got off lightly after having been warned already about smashing her racket.  There is no point in having an umpire if they can't uphold the rules of the game. 

The sexist card was just a cowardly get out for Serena. Unfortunately, the extremists in the feminine activist lobby are having a field day with it - extremists who spoil womens' genuine cases of sexism by labelling every tiny thing that happens against them as being "sexist". 





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Re: Serena Williams

"I suspect if a male player had called him that, I suspect he would have been defaulted there and then and forfeited the match."

What makes you suspect that? Cos I've not seen any evidence of that...
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Re: Serena Williams

So what you're saying is that middle-aged white men aren't allowed an opinion on anything involving minority ethnicity and/or female tennis players? What do you think the outcome is if we take that argument all the way to its logical conclusion?
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Re: Serena Williams

'I think', if Nick Kyrgios had acted the same way and got the same punishment, it wouldn't be because he's a man, it would be because hes an ** and that would be the last of it. Serena Williams acted like an ** and made a fool of herself (in front of her home crowd no less) as a self-proclaimed role model for young women everywhere, but chose to play her bonus bamboozle card and call the gender politics brigade in to cover her arsery.

Furthermore, a player of her experience surely must know that this umpire is widely-accepted as a stickler for the rulebook and won't bend to player power. Even at Sunday league football level, if a referee is known for being a bit card-happy or Collina-esque then you know not to push it.

It's all academic now anyway but I'd be very interested to know if you swapped the umpire's gender here, would there still be an argument?


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Re: Serena Williams

Twitter post by @damonheraldsun: @Knightcartoons cartoon is not racist or sexist .... it rightly mocks poor behavior by a tennis legend ... Mark has the full support of everyone @theheraldsun
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Re: Serena Williams

If we turn it around... if the umpire was female, do you think Williams would have ranted at her the same way? Do you think she would have accused her of sexism? Maybe there was some sexism involved but maybe it wasn't coming from the umpire.
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Re: Serena Williams

canarydan23 - I listened to a really interesting interview with a tennis umpire yesterday. He explained that code violations for things players say to the umpire are split into two categories. The first is 'audible obscenities' and the second is 'impuning the honesty and integrity of the umpire'. While Serena Williams didn't transgress the first one she very clearly transgressed the second by repeatedly calling the umpire a 'thief' and also calling him a 'liar'. It's worth noting that the umpire didn't immediately sanction Serena Williams for calling him these things, but only did so when she had repeated them a number of times.
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Re: Serena Williams

Isn't Carlos Ramos quite a strict Umpire anyway? 

Why did Serena bring sex into it? She started by claiming she couldn't cheat because 'she has a daughter'. What relevance does that hold?

Also, the tennis match was a woman vs a woman. I'm not sure how being sexist was going to produce anything other than a female winner and another female runner up.

That's ignoring the fact that Carlos Ramos simply followed the rules. Serena's coach later admitted to trying to coach. Why, according to some posters, we're not allowed to question this because we're white males is hysterically embarrassing.

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Re: Serena Williams

Ian, I welcome your opinion, and that of everyone else, but in order to respect them my minimum criteria is that they are respectful, empathic if they are about someone else and reasonably informed, especially if they are speculative. I think a lot of the views on here fail the "reasonably informed" test, as canarydan has pointed out.

Williams's behaviour was not ok, but it needs to be seen in context, particularly when the discussion is about something far wider (I.e. sexism). I don't know a lot about tennis, but I have read several people who are far more knowledgable than me say women are treated differently to men in the sport and that this was an example of that sexism.

To say from a more privileged position that discrimination against others does not exist runs the risk of looking arrogant unless one has made an effort to understand what life is like for those who are being discriminated against. Hence the "middle-aged white men" (which includes me) phrase.
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Re: Serena Williams

The debate is not whether the umpire was correct. He acted entirely by the letter of the law.

The issue is whether he would have done had this been Djokovic v Del Potro or another all male contest. As has been said, and no one can dispute, coaching happens all the time. There was at least two exchanges between Djokovic and his entourage in the final the very next day. Was there any violation called? Nope.

A few years ago Andy Roddick asked an umpire if he deaf, called him an idiot and said he must have dropped out of school when he was 8. Code violation? Nope.

As for Serena, she either didn't realise her coach had said anything to her, so would have been incredulous at being punished for what in her eyes was essentially nothing, or she couldn't believe that she was being punished for something that happens IN EVERY GAME.

And as for that cartoon, why has Osaka been given white skin and blonde hair? Yes Swindon, nothing to see there.
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